How to Sell Advice

Kevin C. Whelan: Hey, my friends,
I'm super excited to have this

conversation with Tsavo O'Neil.

I've known Tsavo for a couple years.

He's an SEO expert for consultants
and helps consultants get more

clients through their website.

He's got a few different products,
which we'll unpack today.

We're gonna go deep into his marketing,
how he promotes himself, and gets

tons of traffic to his website through
primarily SEO and what he does with his

email marketing and some other things,
as well as how does he do seo, how does

he drive thousands of relevant visitors
to his website consistently every

single month through one or two pieces
of high ranking content, as well as a

long tail of some other content as well.

and, you know, how does he build
his email list and sell products

and services, automatically every
single month with very low touch.

Super interesting conversation
that we had today.

He goes into all the details, shares a lot
of numbers, so stay tuned for this one.

We're gonna go a little bit
deep on the world of SEO and

marketing for consultants.

And um, yes, Tsavo was a wealth of
knowledge, so you're gonna enjoy this one.

Tsavo, maybe you could walk me through
the ways you package up, your products

and services to help consultants get more
leads and more clients for their business.

Tsavo Neal: Sure.

I'll start with a little
bit about my, my background.

Um, I started out freelancing
in my, in my mid twentie.

And I think that's, that's where you kind
of test out a bunch of different things

and see whether or not you like them.

So I, I, I played around with web
design, I played around with S E

o, I played around with copywriting
and everything under that sort

of digital marketing realm.

And I worked with many clients in
many different industries, but.

I always was on the, on the,
on the hunt for how, how

could I make marketing easier?

How could I raise my fees?

How could I become, uh, an
authority in, in an industry or in

web design or, or SEO in general.

And I think Philip Morgan's
work really inspired me at a

relatively young age to specialize.

And his work is all around.

Declaring a niche and being proud and
public about that niche that you serve.

And one of the main things you do
is you look back at the clients that

you've worked with and you think
about, um, who you enjoyed working

with, who has the money to invest
in your services, who actually has

problems that your expertise can solve?

And when I looked at my past client
list, it was, uh, I really liked

working with consultants, independent
consultants, small consulting firms.

I'd only worked.

, maybe two or three of them.

But selling to them was easy.

Working them was relatively easy.

Uh, they had no problem investing
in my services and they had

problems that I could, that,
that my expertise could solve.

So pretty early on I decided to
kind of go from web designer to.

Websites for consultants and I
found it made it much easier to win

projects and, and find projects and
find clients, and ultimately allowed

me to transition working outside of
Upwork, cuz that's where I got most

of my client work back in like 2015.

Into getting clients through, through
my website and getting clients

through LinkedIn, uh, because I
kind of started to become known as

the websites for consultants guy.

Um, and then at some point I
wanted to transition out of

doing done for you client work.

So that's when I started
to think about how could I.

Put what I do into a, a step-by-step
process where instead of me building the

websites for them, I could either serve
them in a, uh, done with, with you model.

So sort of like in a, in a coach or
advisory sense or, um, a purely, um,

do it yourself model where I give
the consultant everything they need

to, to do it themselves so that I, I
launched my consulting website template.

I think the first version
was 20 20 17 or 2018.

Um, and now that's my primary core
offer is a, a basically, um, done

with you and done and do it yourself
product to help consultants write,

design and market, uh, their consulting
website to help them get more clients.

So that's kind of a, a high
level overview of my background

and, and what I sell today.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah,
that's really interesting.

So that's kind of at the crux of what
we, we teach around here is how do

you get out of trading just your hands
work for saying, okay, I'm really

good at now at, at doing the work.

How do I then take what I know,
package it into products and services?

And so you've done a really
good job of that, uh, on your

website, on tsavoneal.Com.

You've got a few different offers.

You've got your template kit, which
is a template for consultant websites.

and then you've got another variation
of that, which is your, you know,

template kit plus plus you, you
help and coach people with that.

Talk a little bit more
about those two options.

Did you start with just the product and
then add the coaching option after that?

Or, uh, like how did, how did
those two come to be and how,

how has that been so far?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Uh, it's quite literally like, um,
done with you is the coaching option.

Do it yourself.

Is the, is the no coaching option.

So I started out selling only
the, uh, do it yourself option.

Um, but I found that I, I ended up
providing coaching and support just kind.

People would reach out once they bought
the kit and they needed help with it.

And I was just providing that support
and advice kind of ad hoc for free.

Um, but that was super valuable
and it, and it, it did take time.

So I figured I would charge for
that and create a, uh, a done with

you option without getting too,
too involved in the actual, like

copywriting, setting up the website.

Cause I, I know I didn't.

Jump in there and start fiddling
around with WordPress, um, or, or

writing copy for them in that offer
itself, I would eventually branch

out into doing some more done with
U SEO O and copywriting services.

But yeah, it began as a
totally do it yourself offer.

And now I'm kind of modifying it,
getting more involved, um, to help

people, um, get the results they want,
which is a website that, um, gets

them clients and with some people.

They just need a bit more
hands on help, um, than the

do-it-yourself version offers.

So I'm happy to provide that
help, but it has to be at a

higher investment on their part.

Cause I'm, if I'm gonna be doing more
work, then I'm gonna require a, a bigger

invest investment from them, obviously.

Uh, but when I first launched it,
it was just, it, I think it was.

197 bucks and I would just kind of offer
ongoing email support for, for no, no fee.

Um, but as I've become, you know, better
at what I do, I'm, I'm charging more

for it and I'm under understanding
more about pricing and how to, how to

charge for my services and my expertise.

Cuz I think when you first launch
something, you don't really think

of your, of emailing the client and
providing them your expertise or

loom videos as, as, as valuable.

Cause you just don't know that.

, your expertise is, is quite
possibly the most important and

most valuable thing that you offer.

So, uh, yeah, started with the do
it yourself and now it's, it's,

um, done with you, with the,
with the higher priced option.

And I even have some workshops that
are, um, done with you and even some,

um, done for you type of type of offer.

So,

Kevin C. Whelan: Okay.

Well, I've got a lot of questions
that I want to unpack there.

Um, so when you, when you raised your
prices from 1 97 or whatever it was

to, I think it's 4 97, and maybe it'll
be different at some point, but, um,

have you, did you notice an increase or
decrease in sales, or was it sort of,

and I don't, I'm sure you're not tracking
the conversion rate on the landing page,

but how did, how did that go with the.

Tsavo Neal: there was
basically no drop in.

There was only an increase.

I I, I marketed it more
and I got more sales.

So there was no real
pushback around the price.

Um, so as I, every time I do
raise my price, I make sure to

make the offer more valuable.

Um, and when I did launch that version
two, which went from 2 97 to 4 97,

um, that's when I, when I, when
I, when I put the course in there.

So it's an actual course of.

Doing everything I do for my
consulting website, how I wrote it,

how I built it, how I marketed it.

I put it all that into a course.

So it's not only just the kit I
added in the, the course as well.

So there was only an increase in sales
because I became, uh, and I, and I'm

becoming a better marketer, ev with
e every iteration of the product.

Um, but yeah, I didn't, I didn't
notice really any pushback and I

never have noticed any pushback
on price because I make sure to.

Make it more valuable every, um,
every time I update the product.

Kevin C. Whelan: I guess, and it also
gives you an excuse to, to communicate

to your, your email list that's saying,
Hey, this, this price is going up.

I'm adding more value.

Do you, do you do that
preemptively and say,

Tsavo Neal: yeah, totally.

Yep,

Kevin C. Whelan: it now, you'll
get all this additional benefit

for the next version kind of thing?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Yeah.

I make sure that people know
that, um, if they invest before

a price raise, they get the.

The, um, the, the, the lifetime benefits.

Um, and it, it, it, it, it
incentivizes people to invest

earlier rather than later.

I don't really like doing like huge
price cuts cuz I feel like that

harms the, the previous buyers.

So I do do deliberately do
campaigns saying, Hey, I'm gonna

raise a price, invest now, and
you'll get those future benefits.

So if they're incentivized to invest
earlier, in the earlier iterations of the.

Kevin C. Whelan: And do you
offer them lifetime access to

additional versions of the product?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah, where it makes sense.

So like updates to the course?

Um, absolutely.

But like, they're not gonna
get, um, a lifetime or, or

one year of email coaching.

Um, just cuz I can only offer
that to people who invest, invest

more and they understand that.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah,
yeah, that makes sense.

So, okay, cool.

Yeah, that's always the thing is I've
heard there's kind of two models.

One is you get the product and then
there's a, a version 2.0 coming out and

maybe, maybe past clients can buy an
upgrade and uh, or you just say you buy

it once and then it's yours forever,
including all the future improvements and

rewarding your customers along the way.

So you've taken that
latter approach then it

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

I much, I much prefer that approach.

Kevin C. Whelan: Got it.

And so one of the other things about
your, your products is that you, you kind

of have an op, like an always open cart.

Have you thought about open closed cart?

And this may tie into your marketing
strategy, which we'll get to, but like,

meaning like, okay, this is available
now, you do a launch, you know, and

then it closes and there's a wait list.

Tsavo Neal: Oh yeah.

Um, I have considered it.

It's just not something I know much about.

I do kind of like the evergreen
approach, which is something

that I kind of do where.

I've done big launches with, with clients
and they're just a, a, a ton of work.

Um, they can be very lucrative,
but like the amount of work

that's required is, is immense.

So I, I kind of prefer the
evergreen oppo approach.

I think they're trade-offs to each, but,
um, my whole funnel is basically, um, seo,

email marketing, like, like a five day
email course, and then I pitch my product

and then just an ongoing weekly, weekly
newsletter and that, that's doing pretty.

Kevin C. Whelan: Got it.

We're gonna unpack that a little bit.

I just wanna, uh, talk about
your products a little bit more.

So you've got, you've got that product.

How, how many of those do
you sell per month, roughly?

On average?

Tsavo Neal: Um, I probably sell
eight to 12 of those per month.

And I, and I really only spend.

25 to 50 minutes a week
on, on this business.

In terms of just marketing the,
the template kit, I really only do

seo, um, and the rest of my time
is spent on done with you stuff.

And then, um, a little bit of
done, uh, done for you for,

uh, a few select clients.

Kevin C. Whelan: Got it.

Okay.

Yeah, that's a great return.

So you're looking at
about five, six grand of,

Tsavo Neal: Yep.

Kevin C. Whelan: we're not gonna
call it passive, but you're, you're

looking at five, six grand of kind of
revenue that comes in larger from seo.

And we'll get, I mean,
maybe you can talk to that.

Uh, so you spend most of, in terms
of marketing, you, you build art, you

do articles, you do your newsletter.

SEO is your core, is your core strategy
with with backed by email, right?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

I, yeah, I think, and I have pretty strong
opinions about this, but I think SEO is.

Um, by far the best marketing
method for consultants.

I think every marketing method
has, its, has its tradeoffs.

Um, and I'm open about those tradeoffs.

You know, SEO is a longer term investment.

Um, you do kind of have to be well
positioned in order for it to work.

Um, it, it requires just the boring,
sometimes unsexy work of writing and

editing, that's like the core piece.

Uh, but once you do.

Dial in a good process for it, and you do
consistently, um, the returns are immense.

Like I, the, the main article that
markets, sa O'Neil dot com is an article

called Best Consultant Websites, um,
which I recently updated, Kevin, you're in

that, uh, but that sends, you know, five,
6,000 people to my website every month.

and it sends X amount of leads every
month who go through my email course.

And I wrote that back in 20 20 17, and
it's still the primary method for how

I get traffic at clients to this day.

So it just goes to show you that you can
write something five years ago and it'll

continually benefit you for years to come.

I don't know if you can say the same
about, uh, Twitter, uh, a post or a

LinkedIn post that you make, you know?

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah, not at all.

That's, I'm a, I'm really a strong
proponent on building on your own website.

So you build that, you
know that domain authority.

You build your own authority,
at least as a home base.

You can distribute wherever you want.

That's a good thing, but, . Um,
yeah, and I don't do any seo.

It's funny you do that.

Like my, my primary focus is
building relationship via email.

And so, uh, but I know that I need
to get more into SEO this year

because it, like, like you're saying,
like you, you write one knockout

article and that's perfectly aligned
with, with your, with your product.

And then now you've got
five, 6,000 people that.

To some percent of them, obviously a
small percent, but some percent walk in

off the street and never heard about you.

$500 for the product is low enough risk
that they're willing to take a tr a shot

at you and, uh, promotes consultants.

That's nothing relative to their,
their, their broader revenues.

Right.

If you're doing, if you're, if
you're in any way established,

Tsavo Neal: Mm-hmm.

Kevin C. Whelan: so that's a, yeah.

If to spend, if you were to
spend the money on Google Ads,

you would not make anywhere.

I mean, it would be,
it would take all your.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think you said you don't do
seo, but you do publish and that's,

that's half the battle, right?

Actually writing and publishing
your thoughts, that's gonna get

you caught, that's gonna get you in
search engines without you doing seo.

But SEO is a piece you kind of
add around that and, and on top of

that to, um, help your writing get
picked up by, by search engines.

So you are doing some of it maybe.

intentionally, but writing is,
is most a battle, in my opinion.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't have a problem with writing,
but it, but sitting down, and like you

said, it's a, it's a bit of a, an onerous
process to get, figure out what keywords

you wanna rank for and then to, to go in
depth and to write and, you know, it has

to be the most authoritative answer to
that question and a good answer to that

question that people are searching for.

Tsavo Neal: Mm-hmm.

Kevin C. Whelan: And
you've also got a book.

So you have a book, um,
productize Yourself.

How's that Selling?

Tsavo Neal: um, it doesn't really
sell that much because people, instead

of buying the book, they just buy
the, the kit, which comes with the.

Kevin C. Whelan: Okay.

Tsavo Neal: It does sell a couple
every month, but I find that

it, it gets less sales than the,
the, than the, than the, than the

offer that costs 10 times as much.

Because that's like a, that's like
a super do it yourself, meaning you

just get the information, but you
don't get the, the templates or, or,

or the, the step-by-step instruction.

So I find that most people just
prefer to buy the kit over the book.

Kevin C. Whelan: Interesting.

And so on your, I'm on
your website template kit.

Right now you have two options, the
kit or the kit plus, um, coaching.

Um, you don't put the book on that
page, so obviously people are, you know,

there's no like third option that's like
40, 49 bucks or whatever for the book.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah, I mean, you can buy
the book standalone, but I just try

and funnel as many people to the, the,
the, um, the template kit, cuz that's,

that's the, that's the most profitable,
that's what I enjoy selling the most.

Kevin C. Whelan: Interesting.

Okay, cool.

All right, and so, so you, let's talk
a little bit about your SEO approach.

So you, so you've.

, um, you've, you've, you also do services
for this, actually, let's maybe focus

on some the service component of that.

So you've recently, you told me
that you, that you do some services,

they're not really, um, you don't
like focus on them on your website.

Uh, but, but tell me like, okay,
how does the services work?

Do people come to you and ask you for
stuff and then you upsell them and just

sort of threw conversation onto your
services and, and what services do you.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

So.

Um, the, the, the first thing people
need to do if they want to get clients

to their website is write and design a, a
a, a lead generating consulting website.

But once you have that website
up, then the next battle becomes

the, the marketing phase.

How do you get, how do you
drive traffic to your website?

There's, there's many ways to do it.

. Um, but SEO is my favorite way, as I said.

So I was thinking this was, I mean, I
think I first created this a year ago.

I'm having this issue where clients will
set up the website, um, but then they

don't know how to market their website.

So what can I do without
actually doing it for them?

Um, how can I.

Kind of offload my knowledge into
their head of, of the ways that

I actually market my business.

And that was SEO o.

So that's when I really started
to break my SEO process down

into five primary steps.

Again, I didn't want to do it
for them, uh, but I, I, I thought

about, you know, maybe I can do.

Five 30 minute Zoom calls, add
in some support and just kind of

teach people my, my SEO process.

So I had a client who had this problem.

They were interested in SEO o So on the
fly I kind of figured, what can I offer?

What can I, what can I pitch this
client to help them get a result?

Teach them seo, but not
just like teach them it.

Actually, I want the, I wanted
the offer to result in something

tangible like an article.

So, I just put down my thoughts on paper.

I put together an email, um, a price
that I'd be comfortable with, basically,

um, what they'll get, what it'll do
for them, and the investment required.

It was, they'll get,
um, five calls with me.

um, each one dedicated to
a step of my SEO process.

Uh, and most importantly, they'll
get an article and we're gonna

kind of co-write an article.

They'll do the writing, they'll do
the editing, but they're gonna have,

uh, my help kind of advising and
editing, uh, the, the article and,

and advising over the entire process.

Um, and it, it sells really well to
people who buy my kit, but want to add

in the marketing piece and they want
my help rather than trying to figure

out SEO on their, on, on their own.

Um, because I've been doing SEO
really intensely for the past.

Three years now.

Um, I'm a lead content strategist at
Consulting Success as a, as a contractor.

So I ha I handle, um, the consulting
success blog, all the content

writing, all the content, uh,
determining what we write and why.

So that's a big part of it as well.

That's how I kind of honed
my skills, um, by doing it.

Um, so ex four hours a day.

So that's how that.

Kevin C. Whelan: Wow.

So it's, it's nice that you have
that anchor client and so you, so

that's kind of like a service, but
you don't offer that for more people.

So we're not gonna call that a service.

It's kinda like an anchor, anchor client.

And then you do these productized
gigs in addition to that,

plus your, plus your products.

Tsavo Neal: Mm-hmm.

, you got it.

Kevin C. Whelan: And so you have these,
these five calls, and I think you

were, I don't know what the price will
be, but in the range of maybe $2,500

for the five calls kind of thing.

Tsavo Neal: Yep.

$2,500, uh, for the workshop.

It's a one-on-one workshop, so I work
with them and I, I, I basically, it's not

just teaching them my process, which I do.

We actually do some
keyword research together.

We, we pick a keyword for them
to write that would be really

valuable for their business.

We outline it together.

Um, we have a, we have a conversation
about it, which I transcribe and, and

give it to them as their first draft,
and then I teach them my editing process.

And then the, the final call is, how
to do on page seo and then publish and

promote the article to get some initial
traffic, because SEO can take anywhere

from a couple weeks to a couple months
to actually show up on search engine.

So I wanna make sure that once people
do produce this valuable article,

um, there's, there's, there's so many
other ways to market it other than

seo O So that's, that's a ba that's
a basic outline of how, how the, uh,

the process is with that workshop.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

Very cool.

Can we dive into that a little
bit more, and you can kind of

talk about those sort of stages.

I think the first thing you
said was keyword research.

Tsavo Neal: yeah.

Research, I think.

I think that's probably
the most important.

Probably the most fun phase of SEO is
once you get a tool that'll show you,

um, how many prospects, for example, are
searching for best consulting websites.

And then you see it's 2000 people
per month are searching for that.

And then you see the keyword
difficulty, um, is, is 10.

So it's actually realistic that
you can rank on the first page.

And, uh, I use ATFs for this.

Um, I'm, I'm in there an hour and a
half, 90 minutes a day just typing

in keywords, typing in ideas.

But if you actually know.

, you take a phrase that you wanna rank for
and you know how many people are searching

for it and you know the difficulty of,
of what it would take to rank for it.

It just makes it so much easier to
conduct like a, a, a, build an editorial

calendar and, and build out a real content
strategy cuz most consultants, they just

kind of write randomly without that data.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

I think you absolutely should.

Material that has no volume just
because you're passionate about it or

it's a, it's a strong point of view
or it's, it's more of a branding play.

Like you, you can and should do that,
but if you do want to get traffic

to your website organically from
Google, um, starting with keyword

research and using a tool like HS.

Is, is, is par, is is key.

Kevin C. Whelan: So
that's your first step.

I, I will go back to the, the,
the, the, the, your, your prior.

Requirement, which is tight
positioning, which is like step

zero, but tell me about that.

Why is that important?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

So if you wanna write, uh, an article
on marketing, you type marketing

into ats and the difficulty is
99, the global volumes, 300,000.

But, um, you're not gonna
rank for that, right?

You're competing with HubSpot, you're
competing with billion dollar companies

with a marketing team of, of a thousand.

And it's just, it's highly unlikely
that you'll rank for marketing and

you type in marketing for consultants.

You see, you see the global
difficult, you see the global volume.

1000 and the keyword, difficulty seven.

So, no, the global volume is not super
high, but the, the difficulty is not high.

And since you're a consultant, um, and
you provide marketing, um, for consultant

services, you don't really need 300,000
people cuz you're not gonna work

with thousands of clients every year.

You're gonna work with,
you know, 10, 20, 30.

So tight positioning
is, allows you to enter.

Longer phrases into a trust or the tool
to find keywords that might have a lower

volume, but also have a lower difficulty.

And if you are a one person team or
a five person team, like you're not

gonna have the resources to battle
HubSpot over the marketing keyword.

But marketing for consultants as
a keyword, that's something that's

doable for a solo consultant.

And you can.

relatively quickly and start
seeing, you know, relevant organic

traffic to, to your website.

So that's what, that's where
positioning comes into play.

Kevin C. Whelan: Go.

So that's, we'll call that subzero.

And obviously if the content you, if
you have good positioning, then you're

gonna know who you're trying to attract,
which makes your content sub specific

and then, and then you're writing seo.

That's content that's specific to the
audience that you're trying to attract.

And then they come to your website
and they say, oh, this is like oddly

enough exactly what I'm looking for.

And then down the rabbit hole they go.

Okay, cool.

So first one being keyword research.

And I think you've talked about
things like, you know, keep your

difficulty under a certain level
and keep, you know, maybe your, the

keyword volume over a certain level.

Is there any kind of general guides you
kind of look for using tools like at.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah, ats.

I like a keyword difficulty if I'm writing
on a newer site to be from zero to 10.

and obviously the, the, the tighter
you're positioning, the easier it is to

find keywords within that, that range.

And then a volume.

I like anything 30 or more.

So 30 might not seem like a lot, but
if you do rank number one for a key

for an estimated global volume and,
and underestimates, right, um, you can

expect 3, 5, 10 x the amount of traffic.

If you do rank number one for that and
you only really need a couple of leads,

um, Per, per week from each article
to, to make it worth the investment

of actually, of actually writing it.

So those are some hard and fast rules that
I like to follow for, for newer sites.

For, for more authoritative
sites, you can, um, just forget

about keyword difficulty.

I've ranked for someones that.

Cure difficulty of 50.

Um, even best consultant websites
is I think between 20 and 30.

So, uh, a lot of factors come into p
uh, into play, like topical authority.

Just Google recognize your website being
around a specific topic and, and are you

publishing, you know, things that, that
prove you're an expert on that topic.

Uh, back links are super
important, um, which I don't do

my, I don't really manually do.

I think if you write content well enough,
it'll attract back links on its own.

Um, but yeah, all that, all that's super.

I.

Kevin C. Whelan: Okay, cool.

So that's, those are great rules of
thumb, at least to give people the, a

sense of parameters so they don't feel
overwhelmed when they, when they go into

a tool, uh, like hfs and then say, well,
oh my goodness, where do I even begin?

Um, so you got keyword research and
then I guess what's, what's, what

will be your second part of that,
of your, say SEO kind of process?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

So the next thing comes,
uh, outlining and.

Like if you try and write an a a cuz like
every, with every article I write, I want

to make, I want to attempt to do the best
article on the internet on that topic.

Um, but to do that from a blank
page can be very intimidating.

So outlining gives you structure.

If you think about like a book, uh,
the keyword, the keyword research

would give us the title of the book.

, the next step to make, to make
the writing process easier is to

create like an outline of that
book, the book being your article.

So, I have a, a, a often I'll use like
an intro and then I'll do like, let's say

it's, it's about, um, sales consulting.

I'll, I'll use the five why's and
how, what is sales consulting?

Why invest in sales consulting?

Um, how to do sales consulting.

PR provided your sales consultant.

Then you want to kind of inform the, the
buyer about how sales consulting works.

You can do a g an article on the
Ultimate Guide to Sales Consulting intro,

five Ws and, and how, um, and then a
conclusion with the C T A, um, given

what they've just read, um, give them.

One or two action steps to
implement what they've read.

One of those should be to reach
out to you for consultation.

Could be a, a newsletter, CTA a, but
basically outlining makes the writing

process, um, much, much easier.

So, uh, I like to break that out
into, its separate, uh, a separate

part of the, of the SEO process.

Kevin C. Whelan: Interesting that you
said you used the five, uh, five Ws, you

know, where, why, when, so that's just
a way to kind of frame up the content.

So like, you know, what, what is this?

Why is this important?

How do people use it?

So that that creates, that kind of
framework, creates an authoritative,

uh, approach to covering all the angles.

Is that kind of the, the

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's one, that's one approach.

Obviously you would, you would add
in your own case studies, your own

unique points of view, um, your
own examples that will really help,

um, make it more in your voice.

, but that's just a, a general approach
you can use for like an ultimate guide.

There's also like a listicle like I've
done with my best consultant websites.

Um, but yeah, those are just a couple
different formats, but it's, it's,

it's really about the, the angle
you want to take and you, you get an

intuition for this once you do a lot
of SEO and a lot of keyword research.

You take a phrase like, , uh,
marketing for a consultant.

And you wanna think about what's
an angle I could take on this?

You know, what, what's the user intent?

What are they looking for when
they type that into Google?

Um, and something like that.

I would, I would, I would do
the ultimate guide approach.

Um, the ultimate Guide to
marketing for consultants.

Make sense, step by step,
uh, really in depth.

Uh, and think about what they
get as a result of reading, um,

your article, what they'll be
able to do, um, from your inform.

Kevin C. Whelan: Interesting.

Yep.

Okay, cool.

And so that's outlining, and then
I guess the next step is writing.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

And that's, um, that's where it gets,
this is where, you know, entrepreneurs,

they get excited about seo.

They got the titles,
they got the outlines.

But when it comes down to like writing
and just sitting down and getting

the words on the page, um, it's,
it's, it can be quite challenging.

In my, in my workshop, I found that
most consultants are more, especially

if they're busier, they prefer to just.

Kevin C. Whelan: Mm-hmm.

Tsavo Neal: why I transcribe it
and I, and I send it over to them.

And that, that is the writing phase.

A lot of like, I think it's
really important to separate

writing from editing, so when
I'm writing I'll forego grammar.

I'm just trying to get.

The words on the page.

I wanna felt the outline.

Get all my thoughts on the page.

I don't try to, it's hard because I,
I am a bit of perfectionist and I, and

I used to edit while I write, but if
you can be disciplined and write that

first draft, forget about the grammar.

I know people who even don't
even use capital letters.

They're just, they just wanna get
the words on the page all over case

and then they'll clean it up after.

But yeah, I mean, for writing, I think
the Pomodoro technique, um, really helps

doing, doing it in 25 minute chunk.

Maybe doing one section
of your outline per day.

Um, and you can just really, really
break it down and try and make it

as easily and easy and seamless as
possible and remove as much friction.

Um, doing things like locking your phone
away in a, in a kitchen safe, all of that

will help you just sit your butt in the
chair and, um, get the words on the page.

And that's probably the hardest thing,
uh, about the, the process is the writing.

Kevin C. Whelan: And yeah, I mean it's
certainly when you're doing long form,

I find like short form for me is I
have an idea of an impulse and it's

something related to what I'm working on.

And I just write about it, stream
of consciousness, and then I'll

go back and edit it and hopefully,
we'll, hopefully we'll refine it.

Um, but, but the idea of like sitting
and writing like a, I don't know.

How long do you recommend
writing an article?

Your articles?

Tsavo Neal: I don't, I,
it's not so much about time.

It's more, I would say,
it's more about word count.

Kevin C. Whelan: I'm sorry, word count.

Tsavo Neal: yeah.

Yeah.

And the, I mean, the quicker you
get the, the faster it'll take.

But I like to, and it's highly dependent,
but if I'm trying to write the best.

Article on a topic, it'll end up being
around 1500 to 2,500 words usually.

Um, that can change
depending on, on the topic.

Some they don't need to be, but
that's just something I like to shoot

for, um, in my, in my own articles,
if they are trying to be the most

in-depth article on that topic.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

And I guess that's the goal, right?

Because there's no point of being
number seven in Google, right?

If you're gonna do this, if
you're gonna invest your.

I think Google genuinely rewards the
best content because they can tell

by like, how many people came back.

You know?

And if you have Google Analytics
installed, probably unofficially,

they see how long are you spending
on, on page or are you bouncing?

And, and uh, yeah.

I think that's the one of the reasons
like having your own case studies and

not bringing in your own expertise.

So it's not just functional,
boring content, like it's, it feels

like this is written by someone
who actually knows their stuff.

Um, really good mindset.

Okay, so you've got, you've got
keyword research outlining writing,

and then I'm guessing editing is

Tsavo Neal: Yeah, and I think, I think
editing, in my opinion, is the hardest

part of the process because that's
the, that's the real writing part.

I mean, with editing, what I'm
doing is I'm making sure that.

. Every sentence, every first of all,
every paragraph is in the right order.

I wanna make sure that every
sentence is in the right order.

I wanna make sure that I'm using
the right word for in every

single sentence, the precise word.

And I'm, and I'm basically
going through that algorithm.

For my article, and that's editing.

It's, it's very like cognitively
demanding if you're doing it like that.

And it often involves writing the
same sentence 10 times, picking the

best iteration of that sentence,
making sure that it's in the

right spot, every word is precise.

Then onto the next line.

So that's, that's editing, that's,
that's might be the hardest part if

you're doing it properly, but that's
how you really improve the readability.

Um, you respect the reader's time by,
by making it easier for them to read.

So they're stressed, they're on
their phone, they don't have time.

They're reading your article and they're
still finding it easy to read, invaluable.

So editing is really
where you, where you do.

Kevin C. Whelan: Got it.

Yeah.

Um, and when you're editing, do
you look, are you, are you trying

to get a number of keywords?

Like do you try to stuff
secondary keywords, like, or is

every article written for one?

Like what's your thought on keywords
after the head, after the title

Tsavo Neal: I, I really, I don't
pay too much attention, um, about

using the keyword in the article
besides the url, the title, and maybe

once or twice in the H two tags.

Other than that, I'm not thinking
about secondary keywords.

I just try and explain things as clearly
and as naturally as possible, and I

find just by doing that you'll rank.

many more keywords than
just the one you target.

But in terms of like manually trying
to hit 2% keyword density and all

that, like, I, I don't pay attention
to that at all, and I don't, I

don't see any evidence for that.

It's even necessary anymore.

Kevin C. Whelan: Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think edit, like I always say, editing
is like, writing is like 80% editing, you

know, because like, uh, and, and people
are kind of always surprised by that.

Even my short articles, often I'll
spend more time editing by like a margin

of two or three, like 80% of my time.

Uh, so it's interesting you say that.

Um, and then getting it over the line
is important, getting it published,

getting it on your website really key.

I guess that's the next, the last step
in your sort of five parts, is that kinda

like final optimizations and publishing
kind of thing and the o distribution.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah, so I kind of,
it's step five, publish and promote.

Uh, we have OnPage seo, and that's
kind of the, the, the final things

that you do that I just mentioned.

Um, making sure the, the, the, the
keywords in the title, it's in the url.

Um, adding, adding an image or
two, try and use original images.

Um, and, and Yost SEO is what I've,
what I use for WordPress sites.

Real simple gives you

Kevin C. Whelan: you use
the the pro version or

Tsavo Neal: no, I only use a free.

Kevin C. Whelan: the pre.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

But it's, it's, you know, adding the meta
description, um, including the H two tags

and, and it's, it's pretty simple stuff,
and you can learn it in, in an afternoon.

Um,

Kevin C. Whelan: you put the
focus keyword in the box just

to give you a little score?

Tsavo Neal: do,

Yeah.

I do that and I find that works well.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

And then dis

Kevin C. Whelan: you to
do all the little stuff.

Sorry, like it reminds you like
add alt, you know, all tags or

descriptions for your images and.

Like that's one of the benefits of
yos is it forces you to be a little

more disciplined with your prac,
with your practice, which is great.

Makes every bit helps, right?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, it's, I mean, again, the
most important thing is your, your

writing ability and how easy the, the
article is to read and understand.

But the on page SEO stuff
is that final 10 to 20%.

Um, that just makes sure that it's,
it's understandable by search engines

and it gives you a, a higher chance
of ranking and then, uh, distribution.

So that's just thinking about.

, how can you get this article out
to as many people as possible to

get some initial traffic to it?

Uh, because you can't expect it to
rank on search engines immediately.

I mean, if you have a higher authority
site, you can, I've seen, you know,

some sites get articles ranked in a
couple hours, even on the first page.

Um, but until then, You know, it's
sending it out to your email list.

It's writing a social post.

It's asking people, asking other
people in your network to share it.

Um, it's all these little things you
can do just to get that article in

front of, in front of anyone really,
and getting people to share it.

So yeah, that's why I'll send an
email to my list when I write a

new article, um, blasted on, on, on
social, asked people to share it.

I don't do any link building, but some
people, uh, some people do that and it

does, it is an important ranking factor.

Uh, but it.

getting that article out before you
expect search engines to, to, to rank it.

Kevin C. Whelan: and you don't have to
submit URLs to Google anymore, right?

Like you, once you give them your site map
and search console, like do you, do you

Tsavo Neal: I, I do, I do that, I do that.

Um, especially on newer sites.

I've found that with more,
with more authoritative sites,

you don't have to do that.

Google will, will, will, will crawl
them early, like within a day.

But on newer sites, I find
that it, it helps, um, it helps

get them picked up quicker.

So I do, I do submit mine manually
through Google Search Console.

Kevin C. Whelan: Got it.

Cool.

Okay.

Um, uh, one like meta example of back
links, which you don't do, but indirectly.

So obviously if the content's good enough,
people are probably gonna link to it,

it's authoritative, that kind of thing.

Um, you, you had your top 30,
uh, best consultant websites

and why they have them 2023.

You've updated it.

Um, The cool thing about that is
like, I'm always a big fan of like,

if you want people to distribute your
ideas, if you can feature people, it's

a great way to naturally get them.

Whether, if you're a local business
and featuring the local businesses

around you is like the time
best place to eat or whatever.

Next thing you know, they're sharing it.

They're linking to it on their blog.

They're putting their newsletter.

Um, so you don't officially do back
links, but any other tactics like

that that help accrue back links.

Tsavo Neal: Using data is, is,
is a really powerful way if you,

if you type in consulting fees.

Um, with my, with with, with consulting
success, we did an article around,

Um, consulting fees and what really
boosted us above our competitors

was doing like an original study or
survey on consulting fees, asking

our list using SurveyMonkey, um, some
questions about how they set their

fees, um, what's worked best for you.

And that really pushed
us above our competitors.

So we're, that's, that gets a ton of
traffic every, every month, but anytime

you can include original data that will
also help you attract links naturally.

We even had some of our
biggest competitors.

, um, link to link to that post, um,
because we had data that they could

use to make their article better.

So yeah, data and featuring other
people is the really only two ways that

I've, outside of just writing really
good stuff and really helpful stuff.

Um, those two sort of angles to
take on content, content I've

seen really help attract back
links naturally, but I've never.

. I mean, maybe a couple times I've asked
for them and done like, there's like,

uh, like it's like 4 0 4 0 4 page link
building where you like literally hunt out

websites that, that are linking to broken
pages and you offer them like your own,

your own website as a, as a replacement.

It's just super, super time consuming.

Um, the, the, the hit rate's super low.

It's like a full-time job and I
just prefer to, to, to double down

on, on writing ability and content.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

And I guess watching how your, your
posts are performing, if they're number

five, is there something you could
do to improve the headline, add more

content, tweak it, improve it, you know,

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think updating older posts that are
in that five to 15 spot, um, is one of.

Things that move the needle
most for, for my own seo.

Um, cuz they already are picked up by
Google, but they're just, they just

might be missing like a section or
just they need to be rewritten or they

need to match u uh, user intent or
they need like a case study or a video.

But improving content that's
ranking decently well is

probably priority number one.

And, and could even overtake writing
brand new content from scratch.

So yeah, updating.

Those, those mid-level
posts making them better.

Um, is, is, is a, is
a, is a great SEO play.

Kevin C. Whelan: Love it.

Cool.

So how often do you write these
articles or how often do you aim to.

Tsavo Neal: yeah, so for my, for for savo
neil.com, i, I, I only really focus on

best consultant websites, so I update
that, um, a couple times every month.

Um, for CS Consulting success,
I do, uh, two articles per.

So they're very in-depth articles.

They're, they're often
targeting hard keywords.

Um, there's a lot of features featuring
clients and, and, and other experts.

Um, for a new site of mine, B
G J Equipment, which is a, a

hobby site, I'm writing anywhere
from one to two posts per week.

Um, so collectively I'm involved in.

, you know, one or two web
1, 2, 3 posts per per week.

Uh, but it, it's dependent on,
on, on the niche, on your goals.

Uh, but generally for a consultant who,
who wants to take this seriously, I think

starting with one really good article
a month, um, in a year you'll have a 12

sort of marketing assets that are, that
are moving the needle for your business.

And, and once a month is like, is nothing.

You can do 25 minutes a day of
writing and that'll give you.

One article per month for your business.

So yeah,

Kevin C. Whelan: And so going back
to your own website, you said you

just update the best consultant.

every, like, what'd you say?

Every few weeks or months?

Tsavo Neal: yeah.

Every, every few months
I'll add more people to it.

But, um, the, the, the, the better play
for me there, since I already ranked

for the primary keyword, is to focus
more on the, um, the email marketing.

Focusing more on upselling and, and
really now helping my clients get

results and then, um, marketing those
results through my email list rather

than going for maybe a keyword.

Cuz like best consultant websites
or consulting websites doesn't

get a lot of search volume.

But it is enough to get, um, a good
amount of revenue every month from,

from the product and, and, and
ultimately through upselling to, to

other aspects of, of, uh, marketing,
uh, elite generating consulting website.

So,

Kevin C. Whelan: Interesting.

Okay, so, uh, why not do one
article, one new article a quarter?

Like why, if that one's working so well?

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Kevin C. Whelan: Why
not is just time like.

Tsavo Neal: No, it's a good question.

Um, if you like, I've, I've hunted
four keywords around consulting

websites and there's just not many yet.

So like, maybe like consulting homepage
would get like a search volume of 10,

and I'm already ranking there with best
consultant websites somehow because

somewhere on the web, on the page, someone
mentioned their homepage or whatever.

So there's just not a ton of
search volume around consulting

websites enough where it, it makes
sense to, to do a lot of SEO for.

because I already own, I think, the
most valuable keyword for, for my

niche of, of consulting websites, which
is best consulting websites, right?

So I can use that time and I can use that
to write a weekly, um, email newsletter.

I can invest that time in doing the
workshops with my clients, um, and,

and in other ways other than seo.

So cuz it gets around five or 6,000
visits a month, that should be enough

for me to monetize and, and, you know,
sell eight to 12 to 15 templates per.

Kevin C. Whelan: And so how
many, like how many newsletter

subscribers would you say you get

Tsavo Neal: Um, I've got, right now I've
got around 3,500 total, and every month

it's between, I think one 50 to 200.

So, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a
good amount and I, and I find that

the highest ROI for me is being
consistent with, with my newsletter.

Um, so that's, that's why I'm
spending that, that, that amount of

time on this particular business.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

And so I've been a subscriber of
your newsletter for a long time.

Um, why don't you publish the content
from your newsletter onto your blog?

Tsavo Neal: That's a good question.

Um,

Kevin C. Whelan: I.

Tsavo Neal: I think it, for me, it
might just be my obsession with seo.

First of all.

I probably should, uh, but I

just

Kevin C. Whelan: have like the
opposite, like I'll publish

the equivalent of what you do.

Just like on my blog and like,

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

I actually don't have
a good answer for that.

I probably should, but it's probably
just my sort of o c d around s e o

and like following my process, it's
tough for me to, to publish something

without following this process,
just cause I know it works so well.

Um, but no, it's a, it's, uh, I should
do more non SEO related articles.

It's probably connected to the fact that
I don't post too much on social media.

Uh, I, I might do more of that.

And if you do use social
media, it opens you up to.

writing more, um, not using seo,
but like, like you do, like, you'll

just write what's on your mind and
share that and it, and it works well.

Um, and you don't, yeah, again, you don't
need to use seo, but that's just the

process that I'm most comfortable with
and where I've seen most results, so.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just funny.

It's like, doesn't compute like
to me like there's so much value

in your email and you wouldn't
really know unless you subscribed.

And, uh, but it, yeah, it's,
it's funny as you as an SEO

minded first person, um, yeah.

I mean, yeah, you've got a
great newsletter by the way.

People should get on there and
subscribe, uh, sal neil.com.

There'll be link in
the show notes as well.

Um, I have one last kind
of question for you around.

Audience pages.

So let's say you have, let's see, your,
your, um, you do website like, you know,

marketing for consultants or something,
and then you're like, well, I, I think

we kind of, we touched on this as an
idea briefly, and maybe you can talk

about it in other cases, but like it
consultants websites for it consultants.

Like, have you, you know, have
you, have you seen it work really

well when you start to create
essentially audience niche like sub

subpages, either as services or as.

Tsavo Neal: Where I've
seen it work well is with.

Case studies on the
Consulting Success website.

So we get a good amount of leads
from people who go to an article.

In the article we'll mention a case study
will link to a case study that, that the

URL sales consultant or IT consultant,
and then that person is reading about a,

a consultant that's in their industry.

And that case study will push
them into booking a call.

So these don't get a
ton of search traffic.

I haven't really experimented with it yet.

I haven't really done, like, I, I might
look into this after this cause I'll,

I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll pop open ATS and,
and, and google IT consulting website and

then I can write an article on how to,
how to structure an IT consulting website.

Um, so I think it, I think
it definitely would work.

I would just have to know the search
volume, are people searching for it?

Uh, but if they are, it would
absolutely be like a killer, uh, a

killer post because it is so targeted.

I think.

Um, obviously like, yeah, consultant.

is, is a, is a niche, but marketing
consultant or IT consultant is like

super, super specific and I think people,
people appreciates, um, specificity,

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, yeah.

The smaller you go, the, maybe the
less return you get per effort.

But, uh, the long tail, once you
add, stack up a few of these things.

And really the mindset here is
that you're, what you're doing

is you're creating an asset.

So every time you do one of these
articles, it's an asset that's gonna last.

Tsavo Neal: Yep.

Kevin C. Whelan: like you've talked
about this one being five years old.

And so, uh, I think that's
the way we wanna be thinking.

The whole mindset that I have is
like, how do you take your expertise

and create assets out of it?

Whether those are knowledge
products, whether those are like

courses and whatnot, or articles or
templates or resources or examples.

Um, that's the, that's the way
the leverage, right, is assets.

Like that's the main around your

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

And that's why it's my
favorite marketing method.

That's why I think it beats all other
marketing methods, because like you

said, it is creating that asset.

. Um, it is extreme long-term thinking,
but um, once it does start to work, like,

uh, it's like, it's like having little
miniature use, crawling the internet

and, and having conversations with people
while you're going for a walk or, or doing

your hobby and like your, your articles
and you're thinking being crystallized

through art, through, through your website
are, are doing a lot of work for you.

And that's the core of, of what I
teach in, in, uh, in my own business.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

It's a great mindset to have and uh,
I think a lot of people don't, can't

think long term like they can, but they
don't realize that yes, it's gonna cause

you pain to create this thing once, but
then in theory it, it pays you forever.

Like you're, imagine you had $5 a
click or $2 a click on, on your thing.

You, you're spending the range of
10 to $25,000 per month for the

traffic you have from one article.

Tsavo Neal: Mm-hmm.

Kevin C. Whelan: And, uh, amazing.

Tsavo Neal: Yeah, there's even like a
really cool, um, blog ROI calculator

where you type in like your, your
lifetime customer, customer value,

how much traffic you're getting from,
from this article, and it'll show

you like what that article is worth.

I just saw this the other day.

It's su super, super cool, but,
um, people just should, should know

that, you know, you might not, might
not get it rewarded immediately,

but over time like these, this will
be the best marketing that you do.

Kevin C. Whelan: You've inspired me.

Svo, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be
working on my, uh, my SEO and

I'll, I'll probably be talking to
you about that a little bit more.

Um, thank you so much for, for being
so transparent with your numbers and

breaking down your business model.

I think you've got a really
fun and interesting one.

A good combination of you're doing some
done for you, you know, and, uh, you

know, with your anchor client and the,
and also with your, uh, with your hybrid

model, which to me is like a guided done
with you program where it's not just.

We'll write it together over two calls,
like it's like five structured calls.

You're learning, you're transferring
your knowledge, which probably will

turn into a product at some point
that you can, through all these

questions and answer, you'll refine it
through doing it a a bunch of times.

Meanwhile, you get to sell it at a
high ticket, so you're effectively

earning over 500 an hour, um,
selling a few of these things.

And maybe there's a
product thrown in on top.

Tsavo Neal: Mm-hmm.

Kevin C. Whelan: Um, and yeah, you've got
a really well dialed in meth methodology

that's working really well for you.

And then, uh, you mentioned quickly
that you've got BJJ equipment.com

for brail Brazilian jujitsu equipment
as a side project and hustle.

So, uh, curious to see how that pans out.

I know you're just getting traffic
and I think you're starting to get a

little bit of maybe affiliate income

Tsavo Neal: Yeah.

Yeah, it's, um, I think the other
day I did $35, um, in one day.

So if you expand that out daily, like
that's starting to, to, to, to make a

dent and it's, um, I think that site
is interesting because the domain name

is still, I think it's 0.8 and it's
already outranking huge websites because.

Of the content.

Like all I think about is how can I
improve my writing skills and then

communicate, um, what I'm trying to say
as, as, as, as, as well as possible.

So that site's been, been gaining a
lot of traction, which is great to see.

Using what I, what what I've
shaved here, sha shared here.

So it is kind of an industry agnostic,

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah.

I love that so much.

Um, well thank you so much for your time.

So I guess the best place to, to find
you would be on your website, sil.com.

TSA V o n e a l.com.

Uh, where and where else can people find
you if you, if they're on the socials?

Tsavo Neal: Uh, you
can find me on Twitter.

I don't post much on Twitter.

Um, I might, I might, I might start doing
more social, uh, but basically my website,

my newsletter, and uh, yeah, that's the
best place to find me LinkedIn as well.

Kevin C. Whelan: Cool svo.

Really appreciate that.

I'll put all those notes in the
show notes and um, yeah, thank

you for opening your methodology.

That's, you know, there's way more to
it obviously, so if, if you found that

valuable, obviously working with SVO
would be great cuz you get the end result

of a really well dialed in SVO grade
stamped, approved article as well as

lessons that you can use for yourself.

And all of your clients, if you are
a marketing consultant especially,

that can be a really, really valuable
skillset set to have, which makes it,

uh, just a no-brainer in terms of roi.

And those are the things I
look for when I make investment

decisions in courses or coaches.

I look for things that are specific
to my needs and can pay a dividend

for a long, long period of time.

And that's an example of just
leveling up your business.

So I highly recommend checking
out Savo, and I've known him for

a couple years, so it's nice.

Um, nice that we get to chat again.

So I really appreciate you
sharing everything so far today.

Appreci.

Tsavo Neal: This was awesome
and I look forward to seeing

your, your progress with seo.

Kevin C. Whelan: Yeah, you'll
hold me accountable to it.

We're gonna make, I'm gonna make
some moves this year, I promise.

Thank you, svo.

Tsavo Neal: Thank.

Kevin C. Whelan: And that's it.

My friends.

I hope you enjoyed this
podcast with Tsavo Neal.

I know for one, I am going to be
thinking about how do I go and

create the most authoritative most
valuable, interesting article.

For something that I think is going
to help people find my website

organically and begin that process
of attracting some of that natural

inbound search engine traffic that.

Good stuff without having
to spend money on ads.

And I know it was going to be
a little bit of a long process.

I know it's not going to happen right
away, but I'm definitely going to be

thinking about how do I create that
authoritative long piece of content

that can rank for a long time on Google.

So that's what I'm going to be working on.

I hope you're inspired to do the same.

I hope you've seen how it's
possible to generate five, six even.

You know, tens of thousands of dollars in
potential revenue through search engine

optimization, and then be able to apply
this to your own client's work as well.

So you may not be an SEO
specialist, but maybe you're a

marketing consultant in some way.

And you want to do a little bit more
SEO for your clients, or at least

advise them in some of the high
level ways they can approach SEO.

I think Tsavo's strategies and techniques
around choosing the keywords around

the level of competition and the
search volume gives you a really great

starting point to help your clients
figure out what keywords they should

think about and how to go about trying
to get more traffic to their website

through highly ranking organic content.

If you like this stuff, Saba.

Actually did a workshop
for members of Mindshare.

And so that training, that
full, comprehensive walkthrough

of how he uses H ref to find
keywords and break it down into.

Uh, write an article and edit
everything and publish it all.

We went really deep into all the details.

He basically showed everything that you
could possibly want to see in terms of.

Actually using the tool to get
these pieces of articles written.

Uh, so if you want to get part of that,
that's, that's content that you'll

find inside the Mindshare community.

You.

I don't over to kevin.me/group.

And you'll I find it
all about the community.

Basically we meet once every other
week and we do a live monthly

training with either myself
or a guest expert every month.

Usually it's on the business
side of what you do.

Although sometimes we're trying
to improve marketing skills like

copywriting in this case, SEO.

Uh, so you'll get a good combination
of business and marketing skills.

That'll make you a better strategist,
better advisor, better freelancer

consultant, and otherwise.

So head on over to
kevin.me/group and check it out.

And otherwise, if you liked this
content, please share with a friend.

Do you know any other consultant marketer?

Freelancer.

Agency owner who would get value from
this kind of content, send them on

over, send them over to, uh, kevin.me.

And you'll find a link to the
podcast somewhere on the website

and get it on your podcast player.

And that's how you can.

Help make this message go further.

So I'll leave you with that.

My friends stay well and I'll
see you in the next episode.

Bye for now.