How to Sell Advice

Hello, my friends in this episode,
I'm going to walk you through an

analysis of where my clients come from.

Both for my generalist
consulting practice.

As well as from my niche
consulting practice in the

flexible office coworking industry.

And so what I've done is I actually
took the last say 20 or, or so

clients maybe a little more.

Uh, pure advisory clients.

These don't include any of the
coaching work that I do with you.

Um, they only include the consulting
work that I do with businesses.

And what I did was I separated it out
based on the ones that came in through

my generalist website, through kevin.me,
which is kind of where I point people

to, if they don't fall in my niche.

And that usually comes from
relationships as well as the.

The, uh, the niche business that
I run ever spaces, a coworking

consultancy for, um, Oh, yeah, the
coworking spaces and flexible offices.

And so I would just want to compare the
two and where the, where the results have

come from in terms of actual clients.

Now, what I did was I broke open
my consulting revenue template.

And for those of you who have joined
Mindshare pro or are in the Mindshare.

Group coaching program.

I trust.

Um, the, you have this template already,
but just in case you don't really what

it is, is it breaks down all the months
across the top access and all the clients

that are across the, the left access.

And, and then you just kind of like a
cashflow statement or profit and loss.

Um, much like my KPI document as well.

It just breaks out how much
who are all my clients and how

much revenue came from them.

So I took, I took a look at that.

I actually went back as far as
2017, so about five years, a

little less than, than five years.

And I picked the last
20 or so clients, um,

I've worked with just over 20 advisory
clients in that period of time.

Many of them have stuck around since,
since like, you know, three or four,

sometimes even since the beginning, uh,
One in one case since the beginning of

when I started doing advisor work, it's
a really interesting stuff there, but

what I want to focus on is where they
came from, because, you know, we do all

this marketing and we, we, you know,
people ask me the number one thing people

ask me is how do I get more clients?

So the first thing I'll
recommend doing is.

Looking at where you've gotten
your clients from in the past.

Analyzing how they found you
analyzing what process led to them,

finding you as best you can, and
then figuring out, okay, how does

that impact my marketing strategy?

Where, how does that change or
affect how I do my marketing?

So I did this for myself
and so I broke out my.

My cohort, my consulting.

Revenue template that I share.

And, uh, and I just looked at it and I
put down beside it, you know, whether

there were referrals, whether it's from
a speaking gig or a webinar or from.

You know, a word of mouth or, or
organic search, all those things.

And what I found is pretty interesting.

So.

Keep in mind that I'm mostly at
least for the last, maybe four years.

Uh, I've mostly focused on marketing
myself in one of two niches,

one being the coworking niche.

And so I have a deliberate
marketing strategy over there.

And then at one with this
community, And what I've left open.

What I haven't really been
actively marketing is my kevin.me

and my general consulting work.

My advisory work for.

Other businesses and they've
included things like SAS companies

and e-commerce businesses.

A lot of B2B stuff.

Um, And they're kind of online.

Education is another big
component of what I do.

But that only, that kind of falls in my
lap through ultimately relationships.

So, what I discovered was of those
clients of which there were, uh, eight.

The they all came except for one from
referrals from two of them came from

colleagues specifically from design
agencies, graphic design agencies.

So they referred work to me by, for
clients that needed more broad marketing

help beyond just the, uh, just like the
design stuff that they could deliver.

So that was interesting to me that.

Of all the colleagues, it was
the designers that send me work.

So that tells me that maybe I need to be
focusing a little bit more on designers.

Three of them came from a platform that
that match makes advisors with clients.

And I managed to get three clients
through that platform over the years,

and I would never rely on that platform.

It's just kind of there, and
it's not the worst thing.

To be on if it does bring good leads.

And there are lots of platforms like that
for both freelancers and consultants.

Um, So I got three from there.

Uh, one came from a client referral.

One came from a friend and one
I've actually met in the community

with other consultants and he
was growing a consulting firms.

In the beginning, we just
kind of chatted as peers.

And then eventually I started,
uh, consulting with his,

with his firms at group.

But what I've noticed is that
yes, seven out of eight of these

clients came from referrals and
that's just interesting to me.

So none of it came from
sort of direct marketing.

Now I was doing more blogging for
that for just a more general marketing

and they never really got traction.

When you're, when you're generalist.

It can be very difficult to
get traction with your content,

especially blog content.

When you don't have kind of a niche or
a particular angle, and maybe I could

have focused on marketing strategy more.

And I just didn't.

I ended up.

You know, After a couple
of years transitioning into

focusing on coworking spaces.

In the advisory capacity and then
accepting leads as they came in.

So it makes sense.

That they were largely referrals.

But, uh, I would also say that when
I was a generalist agency, I got a

couple leads from organic search,
but a lot of them were referrals too,

even though I did content marketing.

However, and this is the caveat here.

Is that a lot, even though a
lot of those were referrals.

And I think I don't want to over
speculate that when you are a more

generalist provider, you get more.

Referral-based business.

However, um, but that's kind of
what, I'm what I'm seeing in my data.

And w when we did a, a group
coaching call yesterday,

In the mind trust.

We, you know, we talked about where
all of our leads were coming from and

there was, there was a very recurring
trend of a lot of referral business.

Now, what I'm noticing though, is that
even my referrals, many of them came

as a result of publishing content.

So that gave me the surface area to
take, to stay in front of people, to

remain top of mind, tip of tongue so
that when opportunities came along,

people thought of me and referred me.

So I think there is a component where
your marketing efforts still does matter.

And they do drum up more referrals,
even if not direct business.

Cause sometimes your clients, their
CEOs, depending on the size of

the business you're working with.

Aren't on social media actively,
especially depending on what

age they are on their background
and that sort of thing.

So where are they coming from?

And yeah, so it was just interesting to
me that yes, content, I think impacts

referrals that when I'm in a generalist
business, it does seem to have high

amounts of referral based business.

And, and so when I'm, if I were
to reverse engineer, how to market

myself as a generalist, I would
probably be looking at making part

loud at establishing relationships.

With peers in the industry.

So in this case, I had to
design referrals, come to me.

Could I make relationships
with more design firms just

by connecting on LinkedIn and
asking for intros reaching out.

Just having conversations, just, you
know, who do I already know and how

can I just have a chat with them?

See how things are going
and maybe exchange.

You know, give, visit flow business to
them and maybe they flow business to me.

So I might even be thinking about,
well, do I market to my peers?

Do I direct outreach to my peers?

And so I think just having conversations
with your peers, even if there

are, even if there are other, say
marketing, let's say your marketing

advisor, even if the other marketing
advisors, or if you're a web designer.

Even with other web designers,
you never know where your

opportunity is going to come from.

People get busy or work is too big or too
small, and sometimes they need your help.

So, especially the bigger folks
who want to pass along work,

that's not quite right for you.

Or for them, maybe they don't have
the bandwidth or it's too small.

And you're, let's say you're newer.

That can be a great place
to pick up business.

Uh, even sub contracting.

When I went, going back to my agency days.

I did in the beginning, I did
a lot of subcontracting until

I got my own client base.

And then I eventually weaned myself
off that and would only take referrals

and not sub contracting stuff.

So that's a whole separate conversation.

Like I could and probably should go
further back and see where I got all

my other past business, but suffice
it to say a lot of it was referrals

and subcontracting work as well.

So if you're in a generalist business
and we'll get into the coworking side of

things in just a minute, It might make
sense for you to focus on creating those

relationships that generate referrals.

And creating content that stays in front
of your peers, maybe connect with people

on LinkedIn that are in your broader.

Local community or some other way
that you feel relevant to them.

So they think of you when
they're ready for your services.

And one of the other things is when
you are more generalist, let's say

you just do web design for anyone.

Uh, your friends and colleagues
and just people around you, your

friends, your network often can
refer you to people because they

know that you do graphic design.

They like you, and they become somewhat of
your advocate and recommend work to you.

That can happen in a niche as well.

But what I've noticed is that frankly,
the more people, you know, the more luck

you have, as long as you're connected
with them and places like LinkedIn.

Where they don't need to be subscribed
to your mailing list, but they

still get your content because they
log into LinkedIn every so often.

So I've gotten content, I've gotten
leads by publishing content on LinkedIn.

Having someone I knew through
a friend or just in my network.

Reach out and say, my boss
needs this, or I know someone

who needs this kind of work.

Can you help them?

So that's a really valuable way.

So condom does create referrals
and I think referrals while you

don't want to depend on them with
your hands out, by doing nothing.

You can spur them.

You can generate more referrals.

I think it's a, it's a vital part of
a consulting project of a consulting

business to get clients through
referrals, as well as freelancing and

agency work, a lot of referrals come
and there, they tend to be better.

Clients, better warmed up.

More trusting and, um, more
willing to work quicker with

you with a shorter sales cycles.

So referrals can be a great thing.

You just don't want to wait
with your hand out and hope

that someone lands in your hand.

Cause it just won't happen.

You want to be proactive with developing
your relationships, just talking to

people, you know, with no agenda.

Uh, being generous, referring out
work wherever you can, and, uh,

contributing to conversations.

Interact with people on social and
creating your own content to prove that

you're credible, because people don't want
to refer you if you don't, if they don't

trust that you're going to deliver on that
job, because it would look bad on them.

So it's.

It's a real thing and you have to yep.

You know, by publishing consistently.

It does.

Um, make you look more reliable and.

Uh, trustworthy for both direct
clients potentially, but also the

people that are going to refer you.

So something to think about there.

I don't know if I'd go so far as
to write content for my peers.

I don't think that's practical.

I might write content about my industry.

To educate my end client.

Like here's the benefits of
an advisor versus an agency.

Or versus an employee.

That being said, I don't, I don't
advocate just for kind of creating

content for your own peers.

Cause they're really not your clients.

So.

Uh, it's okay.

If your peers see your content and
then they refer you to two clients.

But he doesn't want to, you
don't want to make your target

for your content, your peers.

Cause it, it doesn't, it won't
resonate with your clients

and then it'll be confusing.

So, so that's the first part.

So when you're in a generalist business
referrals, Are a really big part of it.

And, uh, honestly, I, when I
was a more generous person, I

couldn't, I had a hard time building
traction, building an audience.

Building traction with an audience because
frankly my content was too generic.

So no one wanted to like pay
attention to five social media

tips for your B to B company.

Cause it's that stuff's everywhere.

When on east.

I then built an audience and we'll
get into how that impacts that the

niche marketing strategy versus
the generalist marketing strategy.

And I'll do that by walking
you through the last 14 or so.

Uh, 15 clients in the
Everspace is kind of world.

And, um, So I'll walk you through
those right now and we'll could

just kind of compare the difference.

One is that.

There is a broader range of.

Of of leads of opera of actual clients.

And.

So just to give you a breakdown of
the, let me just make sure it's 15.

Of the 15, yeah.

Of the 15, six were referrals.

Seven was from either guests presenting.

Public speaking.

Or webinars.

And then within that, some of
them were via industry contacts.

Some of them were via software
companies that serve that industry.

And some of them were via
the industry associations.

And so.

There are different places.

So that's what I call the
golden goose strategy.

So six came from referrals, many of
whom were from, uh, past clients.

So I got a lot more client referrals
because they knew peers in their industry

and said, Hey, you have to talk to Kevin.

He's the guy.

And he does a great job for us.

Uh, as a marketer in this industry.

And it makes them look good because
now they're bringing someone who's

qualified and highly specialized
in their industry to the table.

And it makes all that.

Uh, it makes them look good and
allows and makes for a more,

more, uh, less risky introduction.

And I think that's an important factor.

So a lot more clients I
had of the six referrals.

The clients were one,
one client, two, three.

Four four came from.

Uh, from a.

Clients.

And then I'm looking at one, came from
an industry contacts with someone who.

Uh, an industry consultant, rather
someone who consults for the industry.

And then another one came from actually
another, he was a friend and a colleague.

So, um,

Uh, someone I knew and he was a
marketing consultant in general,

and then he was transitioning out.

So made an intro and a, that was
a good client to get as well.

So largely speaking though, my way
more client referrals, the other, in

the other case, I, I think maybe one
client referral and, uh, the rest of

them came from friends or designers.

Or the platform.

So colleagues.

Uh, platform or.

You know, one case, a friend, I think.

Yeah, one, one case was a friend anyway.

So what I start to do is I analyze, okay.

Yes.

I'm getting six referrals.

Seven from presenting, from
being a guest presenter.

And I call that the
golden goose strategies.

That's, you know, anytime you can get
in front of an existing audience where

you don't need to create it yourself.

Well, that's a podcast.

That's a webinar.

That's a public speaking.

That's a.

Uh, seminar in person seminars.

I've done those as well.

That's an opportunity too, to educate.

And then some percent of people
often will convert in my case.

You know, seven out of 15, uh,
almost half came, came that way,

which is pretty interesting.

Uh, and then the referrals,
you start to think, okay, well,

a bunch of came from clients.

So how do I just, how do I, first
of all, do a great job for clients.

Number two is, you know, if you're in
a niche, it's a lot easier to say, Hey,

do you know anyone else in this industry
that would benefit from my services?

I have two slots available.

Indicating that you've got bandwidth.

And I never overbooked myself.

So you don't have to worry about
me being too busy for you and

all those prioritize our work.

Uh, but if you know anyone, here's,
here's the kind of person I'm looking for.

And I would love maybe an intro or
to put out the feelers, if anyone

comes to mind and if not, no worries.

And if you're doing a good job for
your clients, they're more than happy

to do that for you, especially when
you're in a niche, it's a lot harder to

do that when you're not, because then
you're kind of saying, well, do you

know any business owners who need help?

And that's.

You're then become, you become a
little more risky because yes, you

could help me, but can you help them?

I don't know.

And it kind of creates an awkwardness.

So.

Having the niche allows you
to get more client referrals.

At least this is observational.

This is my instinct, as well
as what the data is telling me.

So I think doing this
analysis for yourself.

Looking at these areas and saying,
well, where are my clients coming from?

And then yes, if they were referrals,
who specifically is referring me

and how do I generate more of those?

How do I optimize for
more of those as well?

So six came from referrals seven
from the golden goose strategy

in terms of guest presenting on a
podcast speaking gig or a webinar.

And then I broke down the various
places like software companies

that serve the niche industry.

Associations are great.

Uh, influencers who have platforms,
podcasts, et cetera, already.

Great places to go.

Uh, and then one came
from my audience at large.

That person may have come from, who
knows where they may have come from.

Uh, webinar originally
then got on my email list.

I used to write a lot of content,
but one person raised their hand.

Well, a couple of people did
actually raise their hand when

I would reach out and say, Hey,
I've got this service available.

They'd email and say, yeah,
I'm interested in that.

Tell me about it.

But one that I've designated, but the
reasons not to is because I know that

one of the other folks came from word of
mouth elsewhere or from something else.

I can't remember exactly
where they came from and a.

So, you know, we'll call it one,
but it's probably more than that.

Um, so the audience factor came
into play one time, at least

directly, like never spoke to them.

Don't know how they got on my list.

And then they reached out
one day when I put out the

feelers, if anyone's interested.

And then the last one was word of mouth
and there was one client where I connected

to the CEO on LinkedIn, but didn't
really have any conversations, but he

kept, he reached out to me one day and
said, Hey, I keep seeing you everywhere.

All I'm talking to all these people.

And they're all saying that
they've worked with you in.

Uh, your grade.

We'd love to have a chat with you,
maybe about how you can help me and

ended up working with that client.

They ended up getting acquired.

It was a really good, good project.

And really profitable one for all parties.

So, uh, of the 15 six referrals.

And then we talked about that.

Seven from the golden goose one from just
a general audience and one from word of

mouth where it wasn't a referral directly,
but a bunch of people were talking about

me or they saw me around so much that.

They just, they reached out and,
uh, we had a good, good chat.

And a good relationship.

So I just wanted to point this out.

Is that when you're marketing in the
niche, your strategy becomes a lot

more about the golden goose strategy.

Yes.

You can do this in a general business.

It's just harder to get in front
of audiences when you don't have.

Uh, specialization in a vertical, so
you become less rare and therefore it's

more difficult to make a compelling
ask to get in front of, to get on

a podcast or to get in front of
an industry association or to get.

Do a webinar for a software company.

Unless you sort of specialize.

That being said, it's not impossible.

So these things really, really work.

I think the reason I was able to
drum up the business I did from

those webinars is because I.

Because I.

Focused on that industry.

I think if I was just a general
market, I'm not sure people would

come out of the woodworks after
listening to my presentation.

If I was just a social media strategist,
and I just did a presentation.

I'd only people would be coming after
me asking me for, for, to work with me.

Uh, the same way they do.

When I basically say here I have
a methodology, I have a system.

Uh, here's my here's some resources
you can take and run with, and

they're already high value and it's
very, it's a much more effortless.

To get in front of an audience
and to add value and to be

specific and to be compelling.

When you're in a niche, but
again, you can succeed either way.

It's just different marketing strategies.

One you're really
optimizing for referrals.

The other is your content and
getting the golden goose strategy of

getting in front of other audiences.

Um, really matters.

So I'll leave it there for now.

This is obviously my experience.

So what I did in our group coaching
call in the mind trust as I call

it comes with private slack and
we meet every other week and we go

through a different topic of mindset,
model, methodology, and marketing.

And, uh, we, we talk about
those, uh, every other week.

And, uh, so anyway, we were all
talking about this stuff and

everyone had really interesting.

Perspectives in terms of where they got
their clients from and how the, how, how

they generated, say client referrals.

Um, how many of them came from content?

All these things and we compared
niche businesses versus.

General businesses and how those
things have come to fruition.

So it's really enlightening
and I think it's worth doing

this for your own business.

Uh, one member actually broke out
his CRM and looked at it well.

Of all these clients that I've had
the last 10 or 15, how many of them

were, you know, high value and how
many of them are low effort and kind

of did a mini analysis of what the
best clients were based on those two

metrics and where then they came from.

And then that kind of
helped him see things that.

The otherwise.

Otherwise, might've been
a little bit invisible.

So I think analyzing the data of
your clients, this concept kind of

comes from this book, the pumpkin
plan by Mike he doesn't use this in

any way, shape or form, but he does
basically talk in the similar concept.

The greater concept is.

When you analyze your clients
and look for commonalities.

And trends and then ideally comparing it.

I've had cases where we've worked with
when I've worked with clients and we've

taken all the clients, put them in a
spreadsheet on the left hand column

and then ranked along the very top and
said, what's the easiest to work with.

Refers the most complaints, the
least has stayed the longest,

spends the most, you know,

All these, all these things that mattered.

Uh, and we kind of scored them up
on a score of one to five and all

of those, and then looked at who
were the highest scoring overall.

Uh, clients.

And then where did they come from?

What was the, what
services were they buying?

What was the, you know, w
what industries are they in?

What, you know, what was
going on that made them great.

What's the commonality.

What, maybe it's a personality
thing with the, with the owner or.

Or team size or company size, and then
you can do sort of an 80, 20 analysis.

So, all that is to say is it's
really important to do some sort of.

Analysis of your clients and your leads,
but your leads don't really tell you

as much as your actual paying clients.

So analyze your clients,
see where they came from.

If you don't know.

Uh, ask and try to get
in, try to dig into that.

Make that part of your process.

I've actually, for those that are,
have, have previously signed up.

For 'em.

The Mindshare pro or now my
insured, uh, Group coaching the

mind trust as I now call it.

Um, For those of us signed
up for that, you still have

access to all the resources.

The consulting revenue template
now has a column beside each,

each of your client name.

And you can actually input where
they came from just to sort

of start keeping track of it.

And, uh, People that use the
spreadsheet really love it.

It's a great way to look at your revenue.

See where your MRR is.

And, uh, and see, we were avid
contract value is see where

you're headed financially.

What is your, what is the
annualized MRR look like?

So what are you looking like?

What's, if you, if all things
remained constant, how much would

you earn at the end of the year?

Um, how much has the project versus, you
know, consulting and recurring revenue?

Um, all this stuff.

So that's all in there.

There's that?

Now a new column.

Uh, right beside the client
name that tells you where they

came from, it's called source.

And, uh, that's just wanted
to share that with you.

It's a, it's an updated resource.

Go take a look at that and
update your sheet if you want.

So I hope this helps.

Uh, are you analyzing your clients?

Are you.

Figuring out what's working best for you.

Are you.

Uh, seeing the trends.

Let me know, I'd love to hear what's
worked for you and whether you're

in a niche or a general kind of
consulting freelance agency business.

And what the differences are.

If you've noticed any trends would love to
hear it, share it in the comments below.

If you're in the community.

Otherwise, I look forward
to hearing from it.

Uh, From you whenever and wherever I do.

And as always, if anyone, you know, is in
the marketing world, this community, this

podcast, my efforts only grow through.

Word of mouth.

Uh, the content nice.

I do hopefully support that.

So if you know anyone who's in the
marketing world, an independent marketer,

specifically, a freelancer consultant
or a solo agency owner who doesn't have

employees just has contractors, send
them to Mindshare doc community and

have them sign up for the community.

Or just email me@kevinatkevin.me.

And we'd love to.

Um, be introed to them and
maybe we can have them.

Uh join the community or whatever
else or just listen to the podcast

whatever's easiest and practical
that's all for now my friends i

wish you the very best and talk soon