How to Sell Advice

Kevin C. Whelan: I want to talk about
my prediction for how marketing teams.

Particularly in-house marketing
teams will be structured.

Going forward And this may take a
little, little bit of time, but this

is what I'm already seeing in terms
of how teams are being structured and

the way I think the industry is going.

So.

A long time ago, or even until
recently, it was sort of feasible

for a marketing manager to be someone
who does most of the teams marketing.

And I think.

What's ended.

What ends up happening is that there's
a lot of specializations in marketing.

And when we set a marketing
manager in the role of being.

In charge of doing all the different areas
of a marketing program, everything from

the creative side to the technical side.

Right down from content creation through
to ads, to SEO, to, to graphic design,

to email, to, uh, you know, you name it.

There's, there's at least easily, there's
at least 10 to 15 specializations.

And that doesn't even take into
account the industry that we work for.

And that could be potentially
a whole specialization as well.

So, what I think is going to happen
and what I've noticed happening.

And obviously this is a bias because
I'm in inside of clients who hire people

like me, who are outside advisors.

But what I'm seeing happening is
that there's someone in the middle

of a marketing department and that's
usually the marketing manager.

That person is.

Typically good at a few areas,
maybe creative or technical?

Not always both, but sometimes.

Uh, and usually they're sort of T-shaped
there, they have a, you know, a semi

broad range of skills that they can
oversee and manage different channels,

different tactics, responsibilities.

But they're usually good
at a few different things.

And those are the things
that they end up doing.

Tactically.

And they either.

Well, you either hire around
them, the different specialists.

Uh, or you outsource it and in a lot of
cases, until you reach a certain size,

we're talking, you know, in the tens
plus of millions of revenue, depending

on the type of business in the margins,
it doesn't really make sense necessarily

to hire a performance marketer before,
you know, $10 million or so, or, or maybe

it does, depending on the business, in
which case it doesn't necessarily make

sense to hire an SEO marketer or a, you
know, a graph full-time graphic designer

or any one of these specialties that
does require a high degree of skill.

But it.

Doesn't make sense.

There's just not enough work to bring in a
specialist at all these different things.

To do.

To, to, as a full-time employee.

So what ends up happening
is in the middle.

There are marketing managers
and they're responsible for.

For finding these people to outsource
work to they're responsible for

doing some of their own execution.

They're responsible for managing projects
for maintaining budgets, for updating

KPIs sheets for reviewing those KPIs.

She's for corresponding with the
business owner and leadership.

Uh, to make sure that their, their
goals and directions are being executed.

But surrounding this marketing
manager and this marketing manager

can be senior or, or, you know,
intermediate or in some cases, even

junior, depending on how much support
and resources they have around them.

They're sort of like the hub
and they're kind of like the, I

consider them kind of like the bee
that pollinates all the flowers.

And their job is to create visibility, to
communicate, to be a good communicator,

to facilitate, uh, the execution, to do
a lot of execution, to pass information

around between between departments.

Uh, and really ultimately to.

Get projects done according to a schedule.

But what, what, what companies
need to be educated on?

What business owners and executives.

You know, need to be educated on, is that.

That there's a lot of.

Just like in the trades, there's
a lot of specializations.

You have everything from pipe fitters
to electricians, to plumbers and

drywallers, to painters and carpenters,
and the whole, the whole works as

a whole number of specializations.

And it's easy for people who aren't
familiar with modern marketing to

think that, well, one general Jack
of all trades can do everything.

And the re what ends up happening is that
the work quality doesn't isn't great, or

the, and, or usually both the marketing
manager, responsible for spinning all

these plates for doing all these things.

Not only is there an immense cognitive
load and it's a challenge to, to

really think through and execute all
these details that need to get done.

Everything from an email requires design
content, personalization automation.

You know, tracking, there's a
whole bunch of stuff in an email.

Alone.

So, not only is there a cognitive load
component, there's also an overwork issue.

And that ends up being that this person
is responsible for doing all these things.

And leadership.

Executives owners they'll delegate.

Hey, I want this done.

Can you get this done?

And won't realize that every single thing,
even the things that look simple and easy

are much more complicated, takes a lot
longer and are very cognitively taxing.

So, what ends up happening is this
person becomes overworked stressed.

And at some point maybe they're
not able to get, to get results,

not the results that they hope for,
not the results that they expected.

And what do people do?

Well, they assume that that
marketing manager isn't competent.

So they go looking for someone else.

And that's where the problem kind of stems
and that's where the symptoms of it are.

Usually they're good at one or
two things they've been promoted

and other expected to do all the
things and it's just not realistic.

And so we just have to sort of
educate people, the industry at large.

That, that these are 15 different
skills and we can label them from

copywriting to content marketing,
getting more specific into blog writing.

And, uh, email content marketing and
social media and all the various platforms

on social media and all the, all the
little moving parts associated with that.

Every single channel has tons of
rabbit holes and subspecialties.

Again, not to mention the business
specialty of understanding how

the business and the industry
works and differentiation, and

then there's things like strategy.

So there's too much for
one person to handle.

The best you can expect is to have
someone who's either a strategist.

And that's where we come in.

As consultants, the consultants listening
to this are our strategic thinkers.

They help to orchestrate
the big picture strategy.

They tend to be good at business,
as well as the marketing.

Understanding the marketing
mechanisms and bringing them together.

You then have someone
who's sort of the hub, the.

The manager of the, of the whole
operation, they're responsible for

making sure the trains run on time.

They're responsible for, you know,
things like watching the budgets

and, and you know, of correspondence,
all the things I just talked about.

And that's the marketing manager role.

Now sometimes you might have
multiple people, you know, In-house

working at various capacities.

One maybe more strategic than the other,
or one more technical, one more creative.

And these roles may get broken out.

But what I'm noticing though,
is that the 10, whether there's

one, two or three people in the
heart of this marketing team,

Uh, what surrounds them needs to be.

A budget.

And there needs to be resources
to outsource and delegate the

tactical execution to specialists
in all the various fields.

No, obviously smaller business
won't be able to afford all this

and they just have to get by
doing the things that they can do.

And that means usually doing fewer
marketing initiatives, fewer.

D different activities and ultimately
just simplifying their marketing

to the, to the 20% of the things
that get 80% of the results.

Until you can generate enough revenue
to justify bringing in more outside

support and eventually hiring someone.

So just as a general rule, there's a huge
role for us as strategists and fractional

CMO is that are listening to this.

As well as all the freelancers and
consultants who are doing execution

work, listen to this as well.

But in terms of just that strategy
piece, we can come in and offer

that broader guidance, knowing
that like Paul Graham has written

on there's a maker versus manager.

The manager is the one managing the
day-to-day and that's, that is a form

of execution, even if they're just
managing people and times and budgets.

That sort of thing.

The.

Uh, or sorry, that's the maker, the
managers thinking about strategy and

business and what needs to get done
and moving the chess pieces around.

That's what the strategist does.

And that's always not always a full-time.

Requirements as well until
they companies get quite large.

So.

The whole point of this is just
as strategists as advisors.

We can come in and bring in experts,
bring in people who are capable

at, uh, executing certain things,
you know, part of what we do.

As advisors bring in freelancers
and consultants and agencies

to do execution work.

And meanwhile, the in-house marketing
manager can be good at the things that

they're good at execute those things
and be the keeper of the projects.

Be the keeper of the budgets.

Be the communicator, the internal
communicator, make sure everyone within

the organization and all the moving
parts are all fully up to speed and

in sync and aware of what's going on.

So my prediction for the future is that
in-house marketing teams are going to

be quite small, that you're going to
have a few core players and, you know,

And really just rely on individual
specialists at all the various channels

and activities to do the execution work
and support the in-house marketing team.

And, you know, the days of one
done for you full service agency.

I think it's just not typ typically
my experience has been that it's just

not a good value proposition because
frankly there's just too much to do.

And oftentimes the agency.

It doesn't have the skillset either
to do all the things really well.

So I think.

The natural.

The natural incentives will
go towards the best solution.

I think the best solution looks like
having a really senior strategic

person, like an advisor or a
fractional CMO to come in and help.

Design the marketing program, design
the strategy and design the how

X work is going to be executed.

Have someone in house to do that.

To be the hub.

To do the execution to make sure
the trains run on time to make sure

things are getting done and to do
some actual execution work as well.

Managing projects in the process.

And then having this outsourced
team of specialists, these people

that you can bring in like special
ops to do certain projects,

certain tasks and responsibilities.

So if you're listening to
this and you're a freelancer.

Or an agency.

I think it's really important that
you focus on your channels that

you're really best at and just cut the
stuff that you're only mediocre at.

And.

What is going to do is make you highly
effective at a few core things, which is

going to make you much more compelling,
allow you to maintain premium pricing

and build a reputation which is
going to help you build a business.

Otherwise you fall in the commodity
trap where you try to do all the

things for all the people and you
lack any sort of expertise, true

expertise and other and industry.

Or a specific channel and that's,
that's just goes back to the,

you may be able to get by it's.

Okay.

You're going to end up attracting a small
business type client who can't tell the

difference between good and bad quality.

And ultimately, I think the value prop
is just much cleaner when there's an

in-house marketing manager, or if there's
not someone who takes that role on a

part-time basis within the organization.

Like a, an operations
manager or something.

And have them sort of manage that and
then rely exclusively on, uh, an advisor,

like a strategist and then, uh, a
team of independent contractors to do.

The specialized execution work.

You'll get better results.

It tends to be less expensive overall,
and that includes agencies as well.

So.

Being a specialist in your area.

It means you're going to get great
results, which means you can charge more,

which means you can justify, uh, they
can justify spending the money with you.

And so this is just sort of
the way I see the world going.

I can't imagine a world where.

Marketing managers should be
depended on to do all the different

things, because there's just
too much that needs to get done.

And therefore there's a lot of
opportunity to work with companies

who have either don't have yet
a first hire and be a fraction.

Like a, I call it a managed advisor,
managed advisory services, like a

fractional CMO who manages the execution.

That role, I think, is vital
for the companies who don't yet.

Can you justify a full-time
marketing manager?

Or when they have a marketing manager,
that person can be junior or intermediate.

They don't even need to be senior
yet for smaller to mid-sized

businesses because they're
supported by a more senior advisor.

And then.

Whether they work with you as
an advisor or, or not having.

Individual specialized.

Consultants and agencies
do their respective parts.

That's going to be the move because at the
end of the day, anyone who's ever worked

with a full, full service done for you.

You know, Marketing department in a box
has known, has seen that they end up

being very expensive and not very good.

But by you build a reputation by being
very good at the thing that you offer.

So if you're selling execution,
still having that narrow focus,

doing fewer different types of
services that you can really ACE it.

So you can become well-known
so you can own that.

Because I think that's
where the market's going.

I think they're going to want to bring
in specialists for all these roles.

Just the same way a home builder
will bring in contractors

to do their various roles.

Uh, I think the days of that full service
done for you agency are, are going away.

And I, frankly, I've not
seen it work very well.

So I have to trust that the most effective
solution is going to be the one that wins.

So there's opportunities for everyone.

As long as, you know, your place, whether
you're specializing as a strategist or

as an SEO or as a, you know, even design.

Whether that's web design or graphic
design or something else, user

interface, design, user experience
design, having those lanes and

sticking to just a few of them.

If she can keeping it narrow.

That's going to be the thing is
specialized tool for each specialized job.

And as the world gets bigger,
people will go further to hire

people who are specialized in their
craft and ideally ones that are

specialized in their industry as well.

And so I just want to
keep all that in mind.

I call that the drive by test.

How many other agencies and consultants
are people willing to drive by?

To hire you.

And the more I specialize in
different things, either the industry

like a coworking or working with
consultants, marketing professionals.

Uh, the further away my clientele
becomes because I'm able to become

an hone in more of my expertise.

Therefore increasing my drive by factor.

Therefore people come from a
lot further to work with me and.

Allows me to maintain good pricing and a.

And run a healthy profitable business.

So.

Be more like the, the tool that does
one thing extremely well, or maybe two

or three things if you want to broaden
slightly, but it should be within the

same family and it should be a plausible.

Specialization.

I think that's the way things are going.

So that's my vision.

What do you think is that what you're
noticing in the marketing world to

smaller marketing teams with more
outsourced support, or are you still

seeing in those marketing managers
being stretched too thin with too much

cognitive load being asked to do too much?

And ending up in poor results let me
know i'd love to hear more about what

your thoughts and predictions are for
the future of marketing departments.

Oh, and before you go, if you
know anyone else who is a solo

marketer, maybe they're a freelancer
consultant, small agency owner, where

they don't have any employees yet.

And they want to go from getting
out of the execution to maybe.

Starting to lead their marketing efforts,
maybe subcontracting or maybe getting into

advisory work, which is my sweet spot.

Or maybe they want to start selling
packaging, their knowledge, creating

their methodology and documenting
it and all that good stuff to kind

of create some leverage and more.

Profitability and the rep in
their business, send them over.

I'd love it.

Uh, I'd love to connect with more people.

You can either send them
to this podcast forward.

One of my emails.

It all goes a long way to help build
the mind share kind of community.

And, uh, right now I've got a new crash
courses on my website, just on kevin.me.

You can go and, uh, get the download
on how to go from doing to leading to.

Teaching your expertise as a marketer.

And that's a great place to start.

So if you wanted to point someone, you
can either have them go look up Muncho

radio in any podcast player, or send
them over to kevin.me, or make an intro.

You can send an intro to
kevin@kevin.me and say hello.

And as always, I love meeting new people.

So it goes a long way.

When you're your referrals go a long
way toward growing the community

and just meeting new people.

So.

Uh if anyone comes to mind please
go ahead and do that now because

that would mean a lot thanks so much