How to Sell Advice

What if my marketing budget doesn't
allow me to implement your advice.

This is a quote and a question
that the community members, Sean,

who's a marketing strategist.

Wants to sell more advisory services.

Has gone from a prospective client during
the proposal stage of one of his projects.

And this is something
that's pretty common.

And, uh, and he wants to address
it in his FAQ's somewhere.

And I've had this, I've had this
before, you know, People, they

tend to want to say, well, how
much are things going to cost?

It's not so much that they know their
budgets so much as they don't even know.

If they'll be able to sustain your
budget in addition to your advice.

And so this is a, there's a
lot of things to unpack here.

And, uh, I think at the end of the day,
he was looking for what is the pat answer?

What is the thing I could
put in my FAQ that would sort

of cover off that question.

And there was some good feedback in
there from Orin, you know, basically,

which is kind of echoes my general
advice, which is as your advisor,

My job is to give you advice that
is aligned with your best interest.

And that includes your financial interest.

All of the I've predetermined that the
money you're going to spend on marketing.

Plus my fees are going to net out
to a profitable situation for you.

The, the nuance here is whether
it's profitable today or

whether it's an investment to
the future of your marketing.

So let me unpack that a little bit.

Some clients can sustain
me on a cashflow basis.

And they've worked with me since, as
long as 2017 in an, as an advisor.

And it's not a problem to
pay my fees every month.

And I add a lot of value in the results.

Show show themselves.

Other clients, they see me
as more of a short term.

Uh, almost like an operational expense.

To sort of.

Build the systems, the strategies, maybe
redesign websites, and ultimately to build

them a lead gen or a marketing engine.

That's going to produce fruit
for a long time after I'm gone.

Or they're going through major
changes in their business.

Uh, one client I had wanted to get
everything really dialed in as they

were negotiating an acquisition
ended up getting acquired.

And, uh, my work was able to produce
and show and demonstrate that they

had a very provable acquisition model.

Actually, we built that model for them.

And I think that definitely
had an impact on the.

The valuation of the company.

And so there's a lot of ways
to slice and dice your value.

So the question is whether you're
going to be within budget today

or after you're done working in
building all these pieces, will it

be within budget over the longterm?

Because sometimes they have to buy, build
a new website and that's something you

want to amortize over say five years,
because that's approximately how long

it's going to take before you have to
think about maybe redesigning it or not.

It's the same with investing in you.

As an advisor.

So ideally you're going to work
to stay within their budget.

Let's say they've set five
or $10,000 per month aside.

And you're going to take, you know, two
to $5,000 to sort of oversee or advise.

Their work.

And then you're going to
bring in folks to do the rest.

You're going to be neatly
aligned with their budget.

And that's great.

Now, as I mentioned, some clients,
especially the smaller clients and

maybe this client is a bit smaller and
that's why they were kind of wondering

and asking though, not necessarily.

Sometimes they'll work with me for
six or 12 months, and then they know

that that's gone and then now their
system is more efficient, more dialed

in and more valuable in the long run.

So.

The question is what, you know,
whether it's just about cashflow and

therefore managing your fees within
the budget, which case yes, you can

do that as long as it's a reasonable
budget and they have reasonable goals.

More importantly though, is what
does the ROI equation, what does

the business case look like?

So the bottom line is no matter
what, you, you produce a positive

return on investment and you paint a
picture of what that would look like.

And you say so inclusive
of my fees and execution.

I imagine over the course of the
year, you're going to spend 80, 150.

Whatever the price
thousand dollars per year.

And by the end of that year, Here
are the types of results I expect

you to have based on your size.

This makes sense.

Yada, yada, yada.

And onward and upward you go.

And so I think that's the bottom line
is that you work within their budget.

And I hope that sort of clarifies that.

Now you did have a question around.

Around, uh, the business model and
whether this is a business model or

pricing tier question, whether to charge
a flat fee and advise, and then make

referrals as necessary versus charge
and help manage the execution via a

referral network, inclusive of fees.

Uh, and I don't know if this is what you
mean, but essentially, and then you ask, I

think, you know, do I choose one of these
as a business model and run with it or do

I offer them a separate tiers of service
managed advisory versus purely advisory?

I'm thinking the latter and I need to
make these options super clear in my

marketing and properly set expectations.

So, um, I would definitely offer them.

I mean, what I currently do is I offer
those as different tiers of service.

I've priced the managed advisory
services at 10 grand a month.

But really that is just advice.

Plus.

Oversight and management
of their marketing.

And so there's kind of some
light execution work like proof

of concepts explaining things,
overseeing project, managing.

Tasks responsibilities projects.

And then there's advisory, which is
less than half the price of that.

So I think I've 9500 3500 for the just
pure advisory, 9,500 for the managed

advisory of fractional CMO stuff.

That kind of worked by the way,
the fractional CMO managed.

Advisory's a lot of work.

Very disruptive.

It becomes kind of like having a
job, so it's okay to get there if

you're just bridging into advisory
work, but I wouldn't live there.

So I tend to price that into
oblivion as high as I can.

And then, uh, it still works for
some clients who have the money, but

otherwise it's, uh, I just focused on the
advisory work because it's significantly

easier to manage and do great work.

Um, and then to have time to work
on your own business as well.

So, uh, yes, I would make those services
very distinct and clear, and it allows

you to push them into the advisory role
and thereby having doing the project

management themselves, or you can even
bring in and I've, I've been, I found

a few examples of people out there who
are digital project managers who can

actually manage projects for your clients.

It's not as effective as if they have
someone in house who can do this.

Part-time.

But totally something that they can do.

So, yeah, I would offer, I offer at least
three different tiers of service and

I just introduced one on the coaching
side, but also on the consulting side,

if you can have a high level of medium
and a low, and that allows people

to kind of dive in and at the level,
that makes the most sense for them.

And, uh, allows you to have the
best of both worlds, get the

results with the lowest overhead.

It just means the client does more work.

And, uh, if they're willing to
roll up their sleeves a bit,

they can save the money on the
management, significant money.

What I wouldn't do though.

And this may be where I was confused about
how you were thinking about doing this.

I wouldn't.

Bake in the cost of execution on top
of your fees when you're managing it.

So I wouldn't charge like 15
grand a month and I'll manage it.

Do strategy and cover execution
work all within my feet.

I've done that before, when I was first
getting started, I think to some level or

no, they, they, they were trying to get
me to do that and I just refuse to do it.

And it just mess.

It just kind of creates a bit of a mess.

You basically become an agency
and then there's no difference.

Or, or like this behemoth
marketing manager agency hybrid.

And you're inseparable from
the projects in any way.

It's not good.

So.

I would recommend separating
always either you're just advisory

as a standalone thing, and then
letting them pay the execution.

The other thing is it's in their
interest to have direct relationships

with these people who execute.

Unlike an agency where you're
kind of stuck with them for

all this stuff they offer.

By having individual specialists that
you bring on board, they get to turn on

or off different specialists as needed.

And have maximum control and also most
specialized senior people working on.

Their projects at different price points.

Versus one blended agency who some
of it's good and some of it's not.

And you kinda, if, if you have to replace
them, then you have to replace your,

basically your entire marketing team.

So that's not ideal for them.

So you want them to have direct
access to their suppliers?

I always say if I got hit by the lottery,
you'll, you'll have a system process.

Everything you'll own, all the keys
will be in your hands and I'll,

you'll be completely good without me.

And I try to, I try to make myself
actively redundant every month.

So that's why one of the reasons I
separate execution from advice, and that

also includes how the client gets billed.

So even though it might be convenient
for you to just invoice everybody

and then subcontract the work.

You might as well just run an
agency and call it what it is.

So I hope that helps my friend.

Uh, at the end of the day,
your, your, your job is to get,

uh, uh, uh, you know, An ROI.

And whether that ROI happens within
the cashflow basis of their budget.

Which to me a budget is a decision.

That's not necessarily
a hard and fast rule.

The budget is what is
your acquisition costs?

What's your payback period.

Can you sustain that?

Is it profitable to do so?

Uh, so the budget is a decision.

Um, but one of the things
I would do is show them.

What the spending versus
the results might look like.

And I actually, during sales conversations
with, you know, a little more skeptical

or unsure clients, we'll break out.

Here's a scenario where here are my
fees laid out over month, over month.

Here's your revenue showing
it going up slightly.

And here's the expenses laid out.

Here's how I imagine it'll cost.

And here's how I would manage it for you
all within your, your budget and maybe

some months or more sometimes or less.

And then you have to consider.

The big projects, like a
website, which again, should be

amortized over, say, five years.

Versus the monthly cost like ads,
which are, you know, in that month.

And it should be accrued
to that month as well.

So I just try to lay out all the
numbers and show them a scenario.

And that's frankly, usually better
than trying to prove that you

can work within their budget.

Uh, it also helps if you're a little
more specialized and you have experience

working in their industry, because
then you can show them benchmarks,

show them examples, show them return
on investment for your past clients.

But at the end of the day, as long as
you build a business case and have a

credible story as to how you can get
the, get that for them, that should help

them with the risk factor because every
client, uh, is taking a risk when hiring

you, no matter how good you, you seem.

And they don't know
until they work with you.

So.

I hope that answers your questions.

If not, let me know in the comments
again, and I'll dig into some more

nuance answer for you, but yeah, as
long as they, I sometimes will say,

as long as you have a minimum budget
of $10,000 per month, Then I can get

a result for you, although I've done.

Advisory work.

I still do it.

For clients that have less than a $10,000
monthly budget and we do just fine.

So.

It kind of depends, uh, on, on what
you're offering and who it's for.

So as long as, you know, you
can get a business results or

you're pretty confident, then a.

Then, you know, Position yourself against.

Well, what are your other alternatives?

Do you hire an agency to
do everything for you?

Do you hire an in-house marketing manager?

Do you try to do this yourself?

What are the pros and
cons of each of those?

Uh, and there are many.

Frankly, I think the advisor model with,
with the individual specialists to do the

execution work at different price points
for different needs for different clients.

Is the best way.

It's the most effective, most efficient,
most convenient, most flexible.

And, uh, tends to get the best
results rather than I've done

full service done for you agency.

And then there's all the other
challenges that go along with that.

So,

We'll get into that another time.

But the comparison between
another value propositions

like employees versus agencies.

But, uh, hopefully this
answers your question for now.

The answer is yes, you are
the custodian of their budget.

And, uh, you believe you can get
them a result if you believe that.

That's all for now have a great weekend
thanks for the question sean Bye.